Using a MiniDisc portable as a singer
On this page: Sketch pad / CD or Minidisc? / Recording levels / Recording song / Optical digital copying / Sound quality / Hard disk recording
(January 2003) This article is very dated. When I last checked out the new models (about six months ago) none of them had line out. The batteries aren't as good, and frankly, most of them are much cheaper to manufacture. I don't know if they have any other goodies like line in and digital in.
I think I got the best model, hands down. It's possible the new ones have newer versions of ATRAC, but apart from that, maybe it's time to look at other types of recorders. The line out problem can be solved if you figure out the exact spot where the headphones volume level is equal to line out, but it's fiddly - and depends on the clarity of the output.
One unit that might be a good alternative choice is the Creative DAP 3. It records in both Wav (PC friendly, and if recorded with the right settings, can be put on audio CD without any reencoding) and MP3. You can then (hopefully, I haven't checked) just upload the files to your computer. Check this or other user forums for more info on this player. I haven't used it myself, so can't vouch for it. One word of caution: I think it uses a proprietary file system, so it's not a regular USB hard drive (like the Archos MMJB is - but that one doesn't record in Wav). The DAP 3 is bulky by today's standards, but if you want a good small non-multitrack digital recorder with good quality and little fiddling?
The old article is a good guide if you want to record into any good digital recorder with a full complement of connections - or direct to PC recording, so I'll let it stay online:
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(May 1999) I just bought myself a MiniDisc Walkman. A Sony MZ-R50. Why? I got tired of lugging the synth around everywhere. I mean, for a major gig - of course! I'd want the best sound possible, even consider taking the N364. On the other hand, I liked the idea of always being ready to just hop up on stage and sing - or just being ready at any time for my old aunts who are my biggest fans.
I had planned on burning CDs to use as backup for my singing. I've been told that relying on one machine could get iffy if said machine were to crash on a gig! Well, for certain reasons it took a little too much time, not to mention that I've gotten sort of fed up with hard disk recording. I'd been told a long time ago that I should get a MiniDisc (Thanks, Don!), and finally I listened. I got the Sony a few days ago. I've already used it for a gig for those little old ladies (my aunts - who were very appreciative). I have an old Stereo Cassette Recorder with a line in, and the sound on that was enough for a couple of small rooms. Ordinarily you'd use the line out and plug the cord into a line in either on a stereo system or a PA system (line level signals).
(October 2001) These days you can't use a new Minidisc player this way. To cut manufacturing costs, Sony and other brands decided to skip the line out! The R50 is still the best machine for the enthusiasts, but I doubt you can find it anywhere new now! So for playback you should probably move on to CD-R...
So far I've done most of the recording with the automatic input levels. Wanted to see how that would work. So far it sounds pretty good. Wouldn't use it for "live" recording, but for recording from the i5m synth, it works relatively well without any fiddling. I still haven't heard the typical "hot" signal, but we'll see. The sound isn't identical to the originals synths - big surprise... Still, it's good enough for substituting the synths, unless the PA system is very good.
(May 22nd 1999) I tried recording both voice and synth today. Ended up using manual levels. I probably had the levels too low, but since I didn't have compression I decided to be careful with my first attempt. Had to make relatively good recordings in a short time because I needed to make a tape for my aunts. The recordings were typical one take "live" type recordings, through my very basic mixer (no EQ) and an effects unit. I used an old Shure mic, I tend to prefer my old mic to newer mics, even though there's a lot of "hand noise". The sound is relatively bright, and I found the sweet spot to be a lot further from the mike than you'd think when singing live. OK, I'll quit with the analog stuff. The sound (with my equipment, bear that in mind!) was good as long as I didn't sing sort of intense. Could be my voice is that way. Maybe it's like that and I never heard it on analog tape? I don't know, I just found out that with my gear and the MiniDisc recorder I should probably sing a little softer than I often do. If I had used a compressor it would probably sound better. It takes some getting used to singing with a more level voice instead of spiking like I often do in a concert. I try correcting it with mike technique and holding my voice back, but I guess compression would be better. (June 28th 1999) I've heard that with spikes and in some other circumstances the sound can be very harsh on MD. There's one song I recorded a bit later, and that song is very harsh. I got a bit careless with the levels, thought that since it had been OK up to now, and I really probably should use higher levels, I would risk it. I guess I really let go here and there. It hurts my sensitive ears - maybe because it sounds bad and therefore embarrassing? I sometimes have the feeling that when you use automatic levels (as I usually do these days) there seems to some sort of automatic compression. It's not fast enough to be a bona fide compressor, but listening to some stuff on MD and comparing to what I heard when I recorded it - the end result is sometimes very different - especially with some sounds I thought would be too loud. They didn't sound that loud when playing the recording back!
I thought I had too much hum and noise, and tried finding out why. Turned out it was the mic. Of course, the house wasn't entirely noise free, and the mic stand was picking up noise from my feet on the floor. Because I'd turned up the mike to compensate for me standing further back the noise was amplified. Even so I'd rather have a little noise than the plosion sounds and the magnified bass that I get when standing closer to the mike. I remember one time I was recording (with a four track cassette machine) and couldn't figure out why the voice sound was so bad. I finally figured out it was better when I remembered I should stand back from the mike...
An added blessing was the fact that I could use digital optical recording from my old Sony Discman. I mean, it's so old I was convinced the optical out on it wouldn't be compatible with the new MiniDisc. Guess I was wrong. Even the cord they supplied was the right cord! I'm not used to standards holding up that long... I was told that another model (not Sony) was better. Maybe mine isn't the best model, I don't know. There's something to be said for electronics that work together, though... Guess I could burn a CD, then make Minidisc copies. Not that it would be all that practical, unless it was for my own consumption. There is the problem that a burned CD won't last that long unless you are really careful with it. (June 28th 1999) I went to a store and tried making a digital copy (MD to MD) of a song I'd recorded myself (a rough demo). From what I'd read on the net I didn't expect it to work, because of the sloppy way fellow MD owners had described the SCMS (Serial Copy Management System). The SCMS prevents digital MD copies of CDs to be copied unto another MD digitally. You'd have to use analog to do that. When you've made the original recording yourself (analog) you can make a digital copy, though. Note that the portable MDs don't have digital outs, only ins.
You know, a MiniDisc is not as good as a CD copy - theoretically. I've heard guys on the internet who says that MiniDisc could be even better than a CD. Well, most guys don't have ears to hear the finer details anyway... They use compression on the MiniDisc, while the CD has uncompressed sound. OK, even a CD isn't the best rendition of music there is. DAT is better, and digital formats of the future will possibly have better resolution than the CD has today (CD has 44.1 KHz and 16bit, while I've heard of soundcards with up to 96 KHz and 22bit). So although I'd like to use MiniDisc for mastering, and possibly also for live recording, I'll use it only as long as I don't have a better solution for recording. MiniDisc beats ordinary audio cassettes (in my view), but probably not CD, DATs or good hard disk recording systems. Because of the compression there is also a problem with generation quality loss. (June 28th 1999) If I were to record really important material, I would buy a portable DAT machine, I guess. Given the experience I have today with MD, I guess I wouldn't record stuff that was meant for a CD release on MD. I would have no qualms about using it for Radio, because MD has become standard for many journalists nowadays.
I haven't heard the MiniDisc played back on a very good stereo system, so I don't know exactly how good or bad the sound is. (June 28th 1999) I've heard the MiniDisc some more now, and I guess I can say that with a good recording where the signal isn't too hot, it's fairly good. The sound is NOT identical to the source, I guess the best results would be to record from a CD digitally. I don't have really good stereo systems, so I can't say what the sound would be like on one of those. I don't think the sound is as good on MiniDisc as on a good CD. There, I said it!
I tried hard disk recording a while back, but I had so much stuff on my computer, it was no good (Microsoft Outlook will ruin any attempt at hard disk recording. I didn't even need it for anything but support - I don't use it myself). I would have to make a double boot and give it another try. I don't know if my hardware can cut it, they say SCSI is best. On the other hand, I have friends with worse systems who are relatively successful, so who knows? I won't know until I can start over with double boot, so...
(October 2001) I've done some more hard disk recording now, but not multitrack. A different sound card helped some, but the delay time on amateur cards will be a big problem with multitrack, so I'm skipping that until I can get a new PC and a good enough sound card. I get good enough results for burning CD with a very cheap Soundblaster card whose original design was a legendary Ensoniq card!
(June 28th 1999) Lately I've tried organizing my sketches and rough demos for songs. I had about ten years worth of cassettes scattered around, and I've located probably one third of them. The problem with cassettes is that you have to fast forward or rewind to find a certain passage. If you don't have copious notes, forget finding a particular idea. Since I'd used at least four different recorders in that time (probably more), and two of them (one broke a few years back) were permanently stationed in my backpack or whatever bag I was using at the time, you're probably guessing correctly that the notes were less than complete. Anyway, I had gotten to the stage where I needed to go through all those ideas and look for one fabulous idea that I wanted to work more on....
Technical: So now I know I don't want to go through that again... OK, I'll admit I had a plan before I started. If you've got a standalone cassette recorder (type component for stereo system) you can either plug the line out into the MD recorder, or 're-cable' a component stereo system. Unfortunately the stereos we usually buy today are integrated - forget doing this with one of them! Anyway, what I did was to plug the line out from the cassette player into the CD/Aux in on the stereo (if you've got a new really expensive stereo you could probably find even more ins, such as TV/Video. Just don't use phono in! Because of the pickup - old technology, comparably - of a grammophone player, the levels are dramatically different!). Then I hooked the MD to the cassette out (I had to use a mini-jack to phono cable because mine is a portable). Hook the other end into the line in of the MD recorder. Choose CD on the stereo (the function selector) and you're ready to record from the cassette player to the MD recorder.
When I had recorded a cassette unto the MD, I went through the recording and added track marks where appropriate, and even deleted some. Don't forget to label each track that is possible to name. When I'm done I have an MD (or more as in my case) where I can page through the track labels with the jog dial, then play the song I need immediately. No fast forwarding!
Technical: OK, some of you will beg the question: Why on earth hook the stereo up like this? Why not substitute the cassette out on the amplifier with the cable to the MD recorder. Well, I tried that and couldn't get it to work on one set (this one had a double cassette deck). Maybe it'll work on your stereo, but the reason it probably won't work is that you have to select the source of the sound with the function selector, and on most stereos the direction the sound will take when you record with the cassette recorder is either from a different machine (CD or tuner or grammophone etc) or from one cassette to the other with a double deck. For the sound to go from the tape player to the amplifier and then back to the tape recorder (at least that's what it'll look like to the stereo system)- well, that's not what those who constructed the thing anticipated it would be used for. Some of the older sets had two cassette ins and outs. For a regular cassette deck, and a reel-to-reel perhaps?
Alternative: If you don't need to monitor what's going into your recorder, just plug the outputs from the cassette deck straight into the recorder. I suppose you can monitor via the headphones, or possibly line out, depending on the design of the recorder. With a PC as the recorder, it does work. Just remember that a grammophone player (as opposed to a cassette deck) NEEDS to go through an amp with the right input so that it's tranformed into line out. You could fry a lot of things if you do what a friend did: He told me he hooked the speaker outputs into the line in on the computer sound card! One of the channels (not sure if that was on the computer or stereo) stopped working!
I guess in the future I'll record on MD and then do a backup unto cassette or CD-R now and then (in the computer business you learn always to make backups. After all, MDs are glorified floppies!). Don't forget to re-cable the stereo...
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Updated 2004-12-26
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